During the recent move to my new apartment, I found a series of notes of my conversations with J., who belongs to the R.A.M. order, a small brotherhood devoted to the study of oral traditions and the world's symbolic language. These notes cover our meetings from February 1982 through to 1990.

I recently asked him whether I might share parts of these texts; he agreed, I have transformed the texts into dialogue for better reading, and the words are not exactly those used by J., although the content is absolutely faithful to that which I heard.

These texts are not in exact chronological order. I decided to begin with some of our conversations from 1986, which was when he insisted I go on the Road to Santiago.

- You said that going on the Road to Santiago is important. For it, one must give up everything for some time: family, work, projects. And I don't know whether I'll find everything the same when I return.

- Indeed I hope you won't.

- So should I take the risk of losing everything I have conquered up to now?

- Lose what? A man only has a soul to be won or lost; apart from his life, he has nothing. Past or future lives do not matter - at the moment you are living this one, and you should do so with silent comprehension, joy and enthusiasm. What you must not lose is your enthusiasm.

- I have a wife, whom I love.

- (laughing) That is the most common excuse, and the most foolish of all. Love has never prevented a man from following his dreams. If she truly loves you, she will want the best for you. And anyway, you do not have a woman whom you love; the woman is not yours. What is yours is the energy of love, which you aim at her. You can do that from anywhere.

- And what if I had no money for the pilgrimage?

- Traveling is not always a question of money, but of courage. You spent a great part of your life going around the world like a hippie: what money did you have then? None. You could hardly afford the tickets, and nevertheless I believe they were some of the best years of your life - eating badly, sleeping at railway stations, unable to communicate because of the language, being forced to depend on others just in order to find some shelter to spend the night.

"Traveling is sacred; mankind has traveled ever since the dawn of time, in search of hunting and grazing ground, or milder climates. Very few men manage to understand the world without leaving their home towns. When you travel - and I am not speaking of tourism, but of the solitary experience of a journey - four important things occur in your life:

a] One is in a different place, so the protective barriers no longer exist. To begin with this can be alarming, but soon one gets used to it and starts understanding how many interesting things there are beyond the walls of one's garden.

b] Since solitude can be great and oppressive, one is more open to people one would not normally exchange a single word with, back home - waiters, other travelers, hotel staff, the passenger in the next seat in the bus.

c] One starts depending on others for everything: finding a hotel, buying something, knowing how to catch the next train. One begins to realize that there is nothing wrong with depending on others - on the contrary, it is a blessing.

d] One speaks in a language one doesn't understand, uses money whose worth one does not know, and wanders down streets for the very first time. One knows the old I, with all it learned, is completely useless in the face of these new challenges - and begins discovering that, buried deep down in one's unconscious, there is something far more interesting, adventurous, open to the world and to new experiences.

"To travel is the experience of ceasing to be the person you are trying to be, and becoming the person you really are."

- Why has sex become a taboo?

- Because it is a process of alchemy: it transforms a vast manifestation of spiritual energy, which is love, into a physical gesture.

"It is imposible to understand sex as we see it nowadays - a mere response to a few physical stimuli. In reality, it is far more than that, and carries with it man's and humanity's entire cultural burden. Each time we face a new experience, we bring with us all past experiences - both good and bad - as well as those concepts which civilization has made into rules.

"This is not right, and we must recondition the brain so that each sexual experience is unique, just as each loving experience is unique."

- Very difficult.

- Very. But one must try, because almost all human beings need to keep this energy in movement. So, the first thing one must understand is that it is made up of two extremes, which walk side-by-side during the entire act: relaxation and tension.

"How can one set these opposite states in harmony? There is only one way: through giving oneself completely. How does one give oneself? By forgetting the traumas of the past, and by not forming expectations about the future - in other words, the orgasm. How can one do this? Very simply: by not being afraid to err.

"In reality, what usually happens is that we begin a sexual relationship thinking that everything might go wrong. But even if it did, what importance would that have? One must merely be conscious of the fact that one must give one's best, and any wrongs immediately are

put right.

"Once the search for pleasure is being carried out by giving oneself, with sincerity, one senses the body becoming tense, like the string of an archer's bow, while the mind becomes more and more relaxed, like the arrow being made ready to be fired. The brain no longer governs the process, which begins to be guided by the heart. And the heart uses the five senses to show itself to the other.

- The five senses?

- Touch, smell, sight, hearing, taste, all of them are involved. Oddly enough, in most sexual relations, people try using only touch and sight: acting thus, they diminish the fullness of the experience.

- Do both partners need to know all this?

- If one partner gives himself completely, he breaks down the barriers of the other, however strong they may be. Because the act of giving means: "I trust you". The other, who to begin with may feel rather intimidated, wanting to prove things which aren't even under discussion, is unarmed by the spontaneity of such an attitude, and relaxes. At that moment, true sexual energy comes into play.

"And this energy is not only present in those parts we call "erotic". It spreads throughout the entire body, into each strand of hair and expanse of skin. Each millimeter is now shining a different light, which is recognized by the other body, and which combines with the other.

"When this happens, we enter a sort of ancestral ritual, which is an opportunity for transformation. All rituals, in whatever form, demand that one be ready to allow oneself to be led to another perception of the world. It is this will which lends the ritual meaning."

- Isn't all this rather complicated?

- It is far more complicated to have the sex one sees being carried out nowadays, a mere mechanical act, causing tension during the act, and emptiness afterwards.

Everything spiritual manifests itself visually, everything which is visual turns into spiritual energy, I don't think this is so difficult to grasp. After all, we are born knowing we have a body and a soul: why not understand that sex also has them?"

- Given that we must change our attitude toward sex, what is the first step?

- As I said: giving oneself up. People think that, before allowing themselves any pleasure, they must first solve all their problems, which is not the case. People can only solve their problems if they allow them to be themselves.
"However, there is a very curious thing: during the sexual act we are extremely generous, and one's greater concern is for the partner. We think we will not be able to give the pleasure he or she deserves - and because of this, our pleasure also diminishes, or disappears completely."

- Is that not an act of love, like you said?

- That depends. It is really an act of guilt, to believe one is beneath the expectations of another. In a situation such as this, the word "expectation" must be completely banished. If we are giving our best, there is no reason for concern.

"One must be aware that when two bodies meet, they are together entering an unknown territory. To transform this into an everyday experience is to lose the wonder of adventure.

"If, however, one allows oneself to be led on this journey, we will discover horizons we never imagined existed."

- Is there a key?

- The first is: you are not alone. If the other person loves you, he or she is having the same doubts, however secure you may seem. "The second is: open the secret box of your fantasies, and do not be afraid to accept them. There are no sexual standards, and you must find your own, respecting only one restriction: never do anything without the other person's consent.

"The third: give that which is sacred a sense of sanctity. For this one must be as innocent as a child, and learn to accept miracles as blessings. Be creative; purify your soul through rituals you invent yourself - such as creating a sacred space, making offerings, learning to laugh together, in order to break down the barriers of inhibition. Understand that what you are doing is a manifestation of God's energy.

"The fourth: explore your opposite side. If you are a man, seek at times to think and act like a woman - and vice versa.

"The fifth: understand that the physical orgasm is not exactly the only objective of the sexual act, but a consequence, which may or may not occur. Pleasure has nothing to do with the orgasm, but with the encounter.

"The sixth: be like a river, flowing between opposite banks, such as a mountain and sand. On one side, natural tension, on the other, total relaxation.

"The seventh: identify your fears, and share them with your partner.

"And, finally, the eighth: allow yourself to have pleasure. Just as you are anxious to give, the other person wants to do exactly the same. If, when two bodies meet, both want to give and receive, any problems vanish.

"Alexander Lowen said that man's natural behavior is open to life and to love. However, our culture has led us to believe that this is not so, that we must be closed and mistrustful. We think that by acting in this way, we will not be hurt by life's surprises - but in fact what happens is, we are not taking advantage of our lives."

We are sitting in a garden in a French town.

- Deep down, people complain, but they love routines - I said.

- Of course, and the reason is very simple: routines give them the false sensation of being safe. Thus, today will be exactly like yesterday, and tomorrow will bring no surprises. When night falls, part of the soul complains that nothing different was experienced, but another part is content - paradoxically, it is for the same reason.

"Evidently this safety is completely false; no one can control anything, and a change always appears at the moment one least expects it, taking us surprise and with no chance to react or fight.

- If we are free to decide that we want a uniform life, why does God force us to change it?

- What is reality? It is that which we imagine it to be. If many people "think" that the world is like this or like that, everything around us crystallizes, and nothing changes for some time. However, life is a constant evolution - social, political, spiritual, on whatever level it may be. In order for things to evolve, it is necessary for people to change. As we are all interlinked, sometimes destiny gives those hindering evolution a push.

- Generally in a tragic way…

- Tragedy depends on the way you see it. If you chose to be a victim of the world, anything which happens to you will feed that dark side of your soul, where you consider yourself wronged, suffering, guilty and deserving punishment. If you choose to be an adventurer, the changes - even the inevitable losses, since everything in this world changes - can cause some pain, but will soon thrust you forward, forcing you to react.

"In many oral traditions, wisdom is represented by a temple, with two columns at its entrance: these two columns always have names of opposite things, but in order to illustrate what I mean, we will call one Fear and the other Desire. When a man stands at this entrance, he looks at the column of Fear and thinks: "my God, what will I find further ahead?" Then he looks at the column of Desire and thinks: "my God, I'm so accustomed to that which I have, I wish to continue living as I have always lived." And he remains still; this is what we call tedium.

- Tedium is…

- Movement which ceases. Instinctively, we know we are wrong, and we revolt. We complain to our husbands, wives, children, neighbors. But, on the other hand, we know that tedium and routine are safe havens.

- Can a person remain his whole life in this situation?

- He can be pushed by life, but resist and remain there, always complaining - and his suffering will be useless, will teach him nothing.

"Yes, a person can stand for the rest of his days facing one of the many doors he should go through, but he must understand that he has only truly lived up to that point. He may continue to breathe, walk, sleep and eat - but with less and less pleasure, because he is already spiritually dead and does not know it.

"Until one day when, as well as his spiritual death, physical death appears; at that moment God will ask: "what did you do with your life?" We must all answer this question, and woe betides those who answer: "I remained standing at the door."